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Who’s on first? In radio, it depends on who keeps score
There've always been a million ways to slice and dice the Arbitron ratings. If you don't like what they say, just look at them another way -- by age group, by gender, by time of day, by whatever. Or wait a few weeks and, like Chicago's weather, they're sure to change. That's especially true since Arbitron's new Portable People Meters turned the whole ratings game upside down.
So after I reported last week the Arbitron figures for January showing a surprise upset in morning drive for Don and Roma Wade on Citadel Broadcasting news/talk WLS-AM (890), I fully expected that the competition would step up with its own set of numbers to dispute my point. Lo and behold, Tribune Co.-owned news/talk WGN-AM (720) didn't disappoint.
For the record, Arbitron defines the morning-drive daypart as 6 to 10 a.m. Monday through Friday. In almost 30 years of reporting radio ratings in this market, that's the standard I always used whenever I listed the rankings of various stations. By that measure, there is no doubt that WLS beat WGN for the first time ever among listeners age 12 and older (which is the same demographic by which I've kept score since Larry Lujack competed against Wally Phillips). WLS had an 8.7 percent share of morning drive listeners, while WGN had an 8.2 share. As the man said: You could look it up.
But now the losers are crying foul. In an email to me Friday and in items that turned up Monday onRadio-Info.com and ChicagolandRadioandMedia.com, WGN officials pointed out that their morning show, hosted by newcomer Greg Jarrett, doesn't conform to Arbitron's definition of morning drive. Both Jarrett and Don & Roma are on from 5 to 9 a.m. -- not 6 to 10 a.m. When you look at the audience shares for those four hours, they say, Jarrett comes out on top.
But does he really? Here are the precise hour-by-hour shares for the four hours in question:
- From 5 to 6 a.m.: Jarrett has a 12.8 share, Don & Roma have a 9.7 share. (Jarrett wins.)
- From 6 to 7 a.m.: Jarrett has an 11.3 share, Don & Roma have an 8.5 share. (Jarrett wins.)
- From 7 to 8 a.m.: Jarrett has a 9.2 share, Don & Roma have a 9.6 share. (Don & Roma win.)
- From 8 to 9 a.m.: Jarrett has a 6.4 share, Don & Roma have a 9.5 share. (Don & Roma win.)
While Jarrett's strongest hour is at 5 a.m. (which doesn't even figure into "morning drive" by Arbitron's definition), his shares drop sharply in each hour that follows. Don & Roma, on the other hand, remain remarkably consistent for all four hours of their show.
In the scheme of things, I know it doesn't mean much. The 12-plus shares may provide bragging rights for whichever station wins, but they have nothing to do with financial success. For advertisers, the real prize continues to be listeners between the ages of 25 and 54. And by that measure, it's still Eric Ferguson & Kathy Hart of Bonneville International hot adult-contemporary WTMX-FM (101.9) all the way.
So go figure.
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Greg Jarrett's 5am hour is so huge due to the Steve and Johnny listeners who fall asleep with their radios on.
Feder, man, you are on the case! ... (gunslinger whistling music Good, Bad, The Ugly) ... Nobody shines that light like you.
I've always thought the numbers were clear cut. But you're right, programs on the short end will try to spin the digits to put them in a favorable light. "I know I lost the electoral college, but I DID win the popular vote." Spinning the numbers to keep a solid cash flow ... that's the name of the game.
Any chance you would be willing to publish a breakdown of the 25-54 ratings broken down by daypart? It would be interesting to see those as well as your comments on some of the results such as you do in this blog.
Jarrett is huge!
Not that long ago in an SF Chronicle column, Jarrett bitched about "columnists" not liking him. He said they tried to use 6-10 numbers to bring down his #1 morning show instead using the time he's actually on. Cry baby.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-12-13/bay-area/17220889_1_kgo-morning-sh...
There is that article where GJ whines.
Anybody remember the old Trident commercial? 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed....
I hate to admit it, but James Edwards is correct... My wife and I are two of those listeners who routinely fall asleep to Steve and Johnnie and race each other to turn off the radio once we've heard Jarrett's voice...
Neither WLS nor WGN must want the 25-54 numbers during AM drive that badly or they would rid themselves of the old white people currently in that slot and switch to a music/talk format hosted by a creative young white guy and his cute, soccer-mom sidekick...a format that doesn't seem to have any particular political affiliation, despite the fact The Mix is owned by the Mormon Church.
Actually, WGN Radio should follow its TV alter-ego and bring in Earl Pitts for a couple of hours in the morning. Come to think of it...who says they won't try that?
There are no winners.
Not the stations, hosts, audience or community at large.
Any "victory" is by default, such is the horrible state of Chicago morning radio,
It just so happens that more people trapped in their cars unsurprisingly had their radio tuned to one of Chicago's legendary set points with the clearest signals.
They're both background noise with frequent interruptions of traffic, weather and sports.
(No offense to background noise intended).
I don't necessarily buy the "trapped in their cars" theory. I try to give listeners more credit than that... you know, the whole "free will" thing. There is a whole smorgasbord of radio out there. Numbers are numbers. Advertising comes into play. Spin those numbers and marketing brings in the dollars. If there is too much advertising, people aren't stupid... they will turn the knob. Lack of talent will do that too. :-)
It is an age old war at radio and TV stations between sales and programming. Sales wants to sell more commercial time, programming wants to take away from sales. Since the corporatization of radio, sales is winning. But they are bleeding listeners.
"Who's 'High Pitch?'"
the best morning radio show ever was steve dahl and bruce wolf, followed closely by bruce wolf and tony fitzpatrick, and lets not forget all the shows that bruce wolf did the sports on, and of course chet chit chat sayyyyy, whatever happened to bru... oh never never mind
Thank God for books on CD. It is the only thing worth listening to on the radio.
Greg Jarrett is an immature cry baby that whines about everything. I have an email from him wondering why I'm such an angry person because I didn't like something he said. He really is a classless act and he makes me physically sick. He's a typical name dropper sorta dude. I'm now a John Howell listener.
Regardless of how interesting or funny a show may be, I say bye bye the moment an advertiser gives his phone # the third time. Or the moment the "humorous" spot becomes insufferable. Or....pick a peeve.
After scanning, I often do not return to that station. And for this, 'sales' has only itself to blame for accepting any old lousy ad.
Kent, don't mean to brag, but I don't turn a knob.
btw, this is the 1st time I've ever typed the word 'knob.'
So, the question is...where are WGN listeners going at 7?
I'm curious. How did Mancow do in the 9-10am hour against WGN?
That morning guy on WGN, who does he think is? Eddie Schwartz (R.I.P).
Alex V- gotcha! It is shocking to actually see what a physical blob Jarrett turns out to be- not at all how I expected him to look! From his delivery, condescending tone and haughty attitude, I somehow pictured him to look like a Donald Sutherland, or Anthony Hopkins. Too many of those famopus Chicago deep dish pizzas, eh? But, back to his numbers- plug anyone into WGN mornings and make bank, at least for a while. Jarrett will NEVER live down his outsider status to old GN listeners. I predict the "not from around here" factor will eventually end his run, the lack of acceptance from listeners. His mispronunciations of Devon Ave. ("Devin" Ave.), and "Lake Shore Road" are major faux paux around here, buddy.
@ md-Norridge #17... LOL!!! KNOBBBBBSSS.... haha. You're killin' me, man! All the insanity of accepting "radio-whore" money for ANY ad. I guess nothing is off the table. One of the biggest offenders is the screeching "Tinnitus Miracle" radio spot. I reach for the dial so fast so many times, I think I tore a rotator cuff. At least I still have my hearing. How do those guys make any money when people are tuning them out? Honorable mention is the "1-877-KARS-4-KIDS" spot. I realize they are a charity. I have donated a car to them in the past hoping they would have driven away, thus ending the spots. Just can't get rid of 'em.
Now I have to go feed my dog Mesothelioma. "WOOF WOOF WOOF!"
Talk about a face for radio, eh? BTW, does anyone know a single 12-year-old that listens to either WGN or WLS (or are they the "trapped in the cars" numbers that people talk about)? I remember as a kid in the early 70s carpooling to swimming lessons, and one of the neighbors always listened to "beautiful music" WAIT-820AM. Talk about being "trapped in the car." But would I have counted as a listener? Apparently so.
@James Edwards: "Greg Jarrett's 5am hour is so huge due to the Steve and Johnny listeners who fall asleep with their radios on."
This presumes that the docked PPM data are tabulated, or something similar.
RE: the Greg Jarret photo above...
C'mon people, that's a great look! That will come in handy at those live remotes from Old Country Buffet. Btw, I hope WGN is drawing the blinds in the studios street windows.
The problem with shares is it doesn't tell you how big the total pie is. By focusing on period to period share changes, it misses the big picture of total # of listeners - but perhaps that's the point...
This analysis broken down hour by hour overlooks that different numbers of people are listening each hour and a different mix of ages - 18-54 are more likely to be at work at 9 AM and not listening while retirees sitting at home are much more likely to still be listening.
(the PPM device has a motion detector so if it is just sitting on a table, it stops recording)
I listen at 5:00am for news and weather on WGN. That's it. Every hour and even half hour, I listen also. But's that's it.
Listening to Steve and Johnny, not. I turn my radio off before going to bed and that's it. Steve and Johnny are a bore and that is why before are sleeping on them. In fact, I'm sure Steve and Johnny yawn during the night also while doing their show.
Greg Jarrett is doing a food drive followed by a Chicago quiz, bub.
I do not have the time nor the desire to get into the analysis of AQH Ratings, Cumes, TSL and a host of other quantitative audience research on the Chicago radio market but suffice to say, the above theories are wrong. I have no desire to get more detailed because that what I do for a living and this is for fun. There is a lot more that goes into the anaysis of a radio station that their "rating" but it is a huge factor.
WOW! What a group of isolationists have gathered here. If you're not from Chicago, don't even think of working here. Small thinking and no tolerance. Sounds like a small, petty village instead of a large city. Guess that rules me out as a listener under those rules.
@Jennifer, I agree about the isolationist tone. I am not a native Chicagoan, but a U.S. citizen. So at least I can participate in a future failed presidential run. ;-)
But seriously, I don't understand the "Yer, not from round here, are ya!" mentality. Just try to apply that logic to the broader media we already enjoy here. Firstly, we would probably lose many good radio and TV personalities. And how should our native Chicagoans be treated when they start their careers in other markets? Yes, there are nuances to life in Chicagoland that an "outsider" will eventually pick up on. I think we can appreciate the talent a non-Chicagoan brings to the table. Besides, many megawatt stations benefit from happy out of market listeners via a strong signal or the internet.
Secondly, why should the "outsider" rule apply syndicated talent on our stations? Using that logic, we would not have SNL (with many Chicagoans), network news, Daily Show or Colbert Report, or sports. I can't see how Chicago or any market could could create 100% successful quality programming content. that would succeed. I like a good burger, but can't eat that every day. A slice of pizza is nice. But if I don't go out of market, where am I getting some fantastic Thai? It would be an expensive meal if I had to fly there.
Bob Collins said it best: "Figures lie and liars figure!"
First of all, all those comments about Jarrett's looks are unnecessary. I'm sure none of the posters here are anything to look at. What is to be debated is content.
Secondly, given the state of the economy today, I wonder how relevant the 25-54 year old demographic really is for advertisers?
Think about this statement for a long time: Secondly, given the state of the economy today, I wonder how relevant the 25-54 year old demographic really is for advertisers? Yes, the relevant demos are the Persons age 2-24 and Person age 55+. The folks that make most of the decisions do not need to be reached. Are you kidding? The economy has you questioning the relevancy of the demo that spends the most money on basic goods and services? What demo do you think advertisers are going after? Now, I will grant you that the more popular demo being sought out by advertisers is Adults 18-49 and not Adults 25-54 as regularly reported here. Regardless of the economy, advertisers will still target the audience that buys their products. Sure, you can question whether advertisers are spending money to reach their desired audience but they are not walking away from Adults 25-54 because of the economy.
No doubt about it. Greg Jarrett has a great face for radio.
At a garage sale, I found a CD from Kantorei, the Concordia U.group often featured on "The Lutheran Hour." I have started to listen to that every morning.... and I'm not Lutheran! Maybe Ken Klaus would do morning drive???
@Jennifer and Kent; Agreed, being from around here is not a prerequisite for working on the air in Chicago. BUT, WGN was not the normal run of the mill radio station. Being a Chicagoan by birth or by having lived here for a long while really helped the audience bond with the morning guy. Were Wally, Bob Collins and Spike all born and raised here? I don't know but they were here for so long they may have well been. With that said, I don't and haven't listened to WGN radio since I was a boy in the early 70's. From my earliest memories in the mid 60's until the mid 70's my mom always had the radio on in the morning while getting my brothers, sister and I breakfast before school. It was always tuned to WGN. I'm a WLS listener and have been on and off since the late 70's.
Wally was born in Portsmouth, Ohio
Collins was born in Waukegan, IL
Spike was born in East Moline, IL and now lives in Nashville.
Jarrett is not my favorite, but I did occassionnally get sick of Bob Collins and his horse laugh. Spike sometimes was so stupid one could just squirm. To his credit, he could do a decent interview when needed. John Williams was way to pompous and stiff to stomach at all.
The only guy I really enjoyed recently was Bob Sirott when he was filling in.
@Thomas Acquinas: "At a garage sale, I found a CD from Kantorei, the Concordia U.group often featured on 'The Lutheran Hour.' I have started to listen to that every morning.... and I'm not Lutheran!"
.
Neither is Ken Klaus, depending on who you ask.
Wouldn't it be great if they somehow measured Satellite Radio on a local basis?? Actually if they just measured them at all it'd be nice.
Would love to see how Howard Stern and Mike and Mike's Sat Rad feed(added to ESPN 1000) would dent into the ratings in Chicago.
the poster mentioning the TINITUS commercial and the CAR 4 KIDS garbage.. is the only one on the right track..
combine that with that fact that the rest of the income for most of these despicable stations comes from ''we can negotiate you out of credit card debt'..
''we can get you bankruptcy''-
this is all a total insult to ANYONE with a rampant brain cell still active.
the only ones listening to this total offensive, predatory garbage are bankrupt morons who are of really little value to anyone, least of all themselves.. economically-
ANY STATION with a modest talent of any nature who ran a advert saying that they REFUSE to run the damn tinitus commercial designed to splinter the eardrums of the innocent citizens who are unfortunate enough to be listening - would have my loyalty.
WLS and WIND are two of the worst offenders in the chicago market.
if you depend on this type of fraudulent, offensive, predatory, or painful advertising by valuless scammers, its not a real shock to find out only bankrupt, imbecilic morons are going to listen to it.
any station found to have run the TINITUS commercial even once should have their FCC license pulled and sold.. covert it to tra-dio with locals calling in to sell lawn tractors. at least it serves the public interest and is not abusing the hearing of innocent people.
I wont listen to any station (wls,wind.. so far) that I hear run the TINITUS screeching noise commercial.. tune them out-put them out of business- its what they deserve.
Dear WLS Radio,
As a loyal listener, I am so grateful for your endless commercials. After my tinnitus healed, I was able to clearly listen to all of your ads with no problem. Since the return of my hearing, Goldline helped me buy and sell gold to finance cars that I've donated to millions of children. In the past, you've helped me declare bankruptcy more than once. Your sponsors also helped negotiate my way out of my credit card debt avoiding personal financial responsibility. I can now afford all the products advertised on your station whether I need them or not because I am in your target audience... "The Stepford Listener Demographic".
Some listeners might find the sheer volume of your advertisements a big pain in the butt. Not me, thanks to my fresh supply of Healthy Trinity Probiotics and some nifty prostate pills. I think my only complaint is that there are not enough commercials. For years your show content has cut into my enjoyment of your fine sponsors. Sure, it's no problem on the weekends, no show content. But it's a real drag Monday through Fridays when I have to sit through the 20 minutes of show content per hour just to get to the real meaty ads. I just want to spend spend spend! But not until I protect my identity with Lifelock and back up my computer with Carbonite.
Well, it's been 4 hours and I must consult my physician.
All my love to you... and then some. ;-)
ken brockman-
there is no better decision than to purchase gold at not bullion value... BUT at vast retail markup OVER current market/bullion value, such as our friends at goldline permit..
thankfully our radio friends who partner with goldline do not educate any of their listeners to this fact, as they urge their drones..
err, i mean...devoted, beloved listeners, to buy a market priced commodity at inflated retail prices far in excess of the actual bullion cost.
I cant believe that in the past.. before their helpful scam-vertisments proffered through our trusted radio favorites, I actually insisted that when purchasing a commodity, I payed the actual bullion value that the substance was then actually trading at..
NOW.. i look back on those purchases of precious metals at their actual market value that have so inflated over the years and wonder..WHY DID I NOT just pay goldline and other retail precious metal sellers the markup back then which would have by now allowed the gold I bought from them then to currently be valued at exactly what I paid?..
sure i would have lost out on all that appreciation in value, but it would have been the fair thing to do..by overpaying, VASTLY.
they after all have families who must be supported off their simple, mom and pop gold business.
As I pull my gold capped teeth ala Dustin Hoffman in "Marathon Man", I'm hoping the pain is worth the return on my investment. I'm happy to do anything and everything the sponsors have programmed me to do.
Just substitute Olivier's "Szell" character for Goldline and Hoffman's "Babe" for the WLS listener. ;-)
Christian Szell: Is it safe?... Is it safe?
Babe: You're talking to me?
What happened to Bob Sirott on the noon show on GN? I am still ticked off about the Kathy and Judy show being cancelled.
Here's a follow-up to the ever popular subject of unpopular sponsors. I don't normally post links. But I had to share this one from the Sun Times today.
"LifeLock to pay $12M to settle deceptive-ad claims
Ads were too good to be true, FTC head and Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan say"
http://www.suntimes.com/business/2092606,lifelock-settles-deceptive-ad-c...
The same radio stations that run these ads continue to air other questionable sponsor spots. You know them when you hear them. I'm just sayin'. I wonder which one gets found out next. Draw your own conclusions.
Seinfeld's buddy Kenny Bania said it best "That's gold, Jerry! Gold!"
Meanwhile, I have to finish washing another car before donating.
kent brockman;
the dirty secret of LifeLock was that all they were doing during the initial years of the ''business'' was taking payments from people to call the credit reporting bureaus and put a ''fraudulent activity warning'' on the customers identifiers..
this then required due dilligence on the part of anyone who encountered a individual opening a account, taking a loan, or using those identifiers..
the party who ignored the fraud warning could then be liable for failing to abide by the warning if they allowed a crook to use those identifiers in fraudulent activity.
the problem was.. LifeLock was making three calls for a recurring charge that the consumer who was paying them a monthly fee could make on their own behalf for the few cents the call cost them, to put the same fraudulent activity warning on their own account.. with ZERO charge, or monthly fee.
the new lifelock 'service' is not the old fraud warning, since they got sued out using the fraud alerts for their own profit.. and its also apparently not very useful.
all the other credit warning 'services' are actually sold BY the credit reporting companies who are basically getting people to pay them for NOT selling fraudulent information about them, and/or expediting removal of such fraudulent info that they previously had no incentive to promptly address...
its seems if you pay them not to sell bad info about you, that incentivises them.. imagine! Good 'business' to be in- making people pay you if they want to get faulty information off of the credit info you make a living selling about them, without their permission.
@Jugdish... pretty scary stuff. The worst part is... I think I missed this episode of The Sopranos!!! Seriously, the underworld would be ran in on RICO charges for this kind of activity. It's nice to see the IL AG nail these guys. Lifelock is Lockdown.
WGN deserves to go down the toilet. Just one of their stupid moves is to bring in a morning host who has nothing in common with CHICAGO.
He constantly:
Drops names of stars and big shots he has known or walked past during one of his past assignments.
Tries to impress us with his knowledge on every subject known to man.
Pushes his conservative anti labor politics.
Trashes Chicago and Illinois any time he can as to be controversial.
I've tried all of these morning shows and none of them do it for me except Big John (solo) and an occasional listen to Don and Roma. WGN needs a morning man.
Also, WGN needs to move Garry Meier now that it's Cubs' season. He'll be pre-empted by games too often! Chicago needs more Garry Meier...
I was listening to Dean Richards this morning. He was taking phone calls about the best Irish restaurants for St. Patrick's Day. One caller mentioned "Ballydoyle Pub" in Downers Grove.
Dean: "I've never heard of it."
Caller: "Greg Jarret did his show there live on Friday."
Dean was caught off guard a little I think.
Even the WGN on air staff doesn't tune in for Greg! Maybe Dean couldn't understand the Gaelic station breaks when Jarret does them in Spanish.